As far as that list ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
As far as that list of "public goods" you listed, you can go ahead and offer them to me as any other service on a marketplace and I will vote with my dollar. This, with the exception of the things that deal in force, because force is not for sale I will voluntarily donate to government police, armed forces, and courts as long as they operate under a rational, objective system of law.
oh so you do agree ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
oh so you do agree with some form of government action. You agree with the 'law' Who do you think creates the 'law' for fuxks sake, you take the comfortable world you live in so for granted it makes me sick. You dont deserve to live under a liberal democratic society. You try live under another form of government (like anarchy in somalia) and you will see how stupid your ideological position is
I agree with the ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
I agree with the rule of law as opposed to the rule of the jungle, which is what you support under the guise of "majority rule." The only guiding principle of any association is the principle of individual rights. If those are not protected, then there is no "law" anymore, it's nothing more than a gang of thugs, or a mob with legalized theft, murder, enslavement, etc. not much different from gang warfare in Somalia, only the victims are now legally disarmed.
You're right that I ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
You're right that I don't "deserve" to live under such a society. You do.
As far as what " ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
As far as what "creates" the law: that is a product of civilization, not tribalism or gang warfare... oops I mean "democracy." The government is an entity with the monopoly on the use of force to be restricted to the use of retaliatory force against those who initiate it. Anyone who attempts to utilize physical force on his fellow man without objective rules based on individual rights is nothing more than a lynch mob, legalized or not. That's the society you deserve.
No, laws are a ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
No, laws are a product of government. Whether the laws are morally correct is based on how democratic the government is.. In a modern liberal democracy (such as the USA or the UK) the law in the most part is legitimate, and agreed by most of us (majority rule) Majority rule is perfectlly fine as long it sits on some basic principles such as freedom, fairness, that kind of thing. So if you agree to your law, you are agreeing to democracy. You can call it mob rule if you like (semantics)
Yes, exactly.. ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
Yes, exactly.. individual rights can only be protected by laws, which are made by democratic government, which stems from our individual right to vote for partys. It is a circle where power goes in both directions. We give them power, and in return they empower us. Thats the basis of liberal democracy and is the only form of government that has given great stability and freedom so far. If the 'mob' contains educated and reasonable people than the 'mob rule' is perfectly acceptable
p.s. I was quite ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
p.s. I was quite drunk when I wrote that last rude comment, to which im sorry. But I find it frustrating when people take our western civilization for granted. It has taken a lot of suffering and wars to get to where we are, and I think you should appreciate the fact we live in very very comfortable, free, stable society. This is what democracy has brought us, and it should be valued as a great human triumph.. not sneered at as a terrible system. Its not perfect, but its working well
Again, morality ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
Again, morality according to you, is based on democratic census. Under the Nazi system, millions of Jews were exterminated by law, a law justified by vote of the majority, for the benefit of the majority. You said this wasn't moral, now you say whether a law is morally correct is based on how democratic it is. Quit contradicting yourself.
Under a system of ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
Under a system of collectivism, men have to gang up on one another, and whoever has the biggest gang at the moment, holds all rights, while the loser (the individual or the minority) has none. Who decides what is "fair" - the collective. Who decides what is "free" - the collective. Who decides what is "that kind of thing" - the collective. Any man can be an absolute master or a helpless slave -- according to the size of his gang.
There is no such ...( 4 months ago by Koutetsu)
There is no such individual rights to vote for which party to seize which unearned benefits and plunder or loot and from which party to loot them from. There is no right to steal, enslave, or murder. According to you, these things are okay, as long as an "educated mob" does it "for a good reason." This is not "civilization" this is straight out of the Dark Ages.
Don't be silly. You ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Don't be silly. You must be drunk all the time. Your version of parliamentary govt is the descendant of many parliamentary govts: Greece, Rome, etc. Cricky, typical Brit/Euro, you take credit for things you didn't invent, and you ignore the stupidities you did. Come, come, are you going to apologize or least admit to driving the world to the edge by foisting slavery on America and israel on the Arabs?
Typically again, ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Typically again, you blast America for the things you refuse to acknowledge about yourself. Which is classic bozo psychodrama. What people hate most in others (whether really there or not) is what they hate most in themselves. Hello? Transference, anyone? Equally true, people who go around pointing fingers hate it when the finger gets pointed back at them.
I dont blast ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
I dont blast america. I see america as a ntaion of millions of my fellow man, and it saddends me to see the state some of them live purely based on the lack of political will to do anything to fix the problems based on an ideological position that says 'TINY GOVERNMENT WITH NO POWER GIVES US FREEDOM' We can clearly see what this does, and happened in the UK through thatchers reign also. She absolutely wrecked large parts of our country, and reagan did it in youres. Its lazy politics.
I believe that the ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
I believe that the rich elite in America have convinced the public that no tiny government is great, so they can be greedy and make huge huge amuonts of cash whilst wrecking the environment and society and taking the fruit of everyones hard work. They use words like 'innovation' and 'efficency' - healthcare is a perfect example of how this is rubbish. Your healthcare costs 16% of GDP against 8% in uk (boring to repeat) but privatisation here as simply NOT WORKED! It needs democratic control
I think this ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
I think this ideology has come about as a justification to be selfish and inhuman. Whats transferance? Im actually am American citizen and have dreamed of coming there to work, but the crime rate, and the road traffic accident rate, and the lack of public healthcare actually worries me. Maybe im just to wussy and need to get my arse over there. Can I stay at yours? Do you have guns?
Drunk again? You ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Drunk again? You english can't seem to hold your liquor. Intellectual bulimics, you vomit up pedestrian whacko-ness. Probably the best way to make you heel is to claim I'm an aristocrat. On your knees, commoner! Look, you did it and you didn't even want to. Talk about in your dna. And like most English, did you have your first sex with another guy in private school. And did he beat you? You talk like someone who gets beat for pleasure, though that's redundant, of course, since you are english.
Hey, I wonder what ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Hey, I wonder what would the world be like if England hadn't foisted slavery on America, or Israel on the Arabs?
Unlike u I do not ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
Unlike u I do not define my self as a national of a nation. I am a individiaul and the mistakes made by people in the past are nothing to do with me. So what the hell you on about? I wander what the world would be like if America changed its foreign policy to one of diplomacy instead of war. You and Russia almost destroyed the f.ing planet in the cold war! That keeps me up at night
Like I said, bozos ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Like I said, bozos who go around pointing their finger knowing little else but what their pompopus perfessor's say is so, just HATE IT when the finger gets pointed back at 'em. You wonder why I question reading your drivel as anything more then I suggest you look in an American dictionary. It contains the word hypocrite. You yammer about what America has done in the past but refuse to consider Europe's own enormous perfidy? That's the real world def of hypocrisy.
Why not trot back ...( 4 months ago by elmerlang)
Why not trot back to your fish and shits until you gather the moral/ethical wherewithal to consider the total picture. I do. Though it's awfully sissy to still wet your nannies at night pondering American-Russian shenanigans of 50 years without considering when another one of your geniuses will invent the clone of Fascism, Communism, Nazism from 60 years ago. I could, and maybe will, in my post-male menopausal years. Till then, I'll challenge ranting idiots and point the finger back at 'em. ?=?
I dont think its ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
I dont think its unreasonable to sometimes imagine what could have happened if nuclear war had happened, and it almost did because of two nations who couldnt see reason. There was infact a monent where 'thank god' a russian naval monitoring station worker didnt follow procedure he was told, when he detected a sub in russian water. All he had to do was tell russian gov that it was there, and that would have been the end of the friggin world (look this up) He saw sense and stayed quiet
it was infact a ...( 4 months ago by markgg1)
it was infact a stary norweigan sub.,.. but anyway, im digressing. I dont really know where this argument is going. You arer just throwing insults at me which I cannot respond to logically. I could easily call you a 'twat' or a 'retard' but thats going to get us nowhere.. have u got a proper subject to debate, otherwise I will move on
Array( 4 months ago by markgg1)
Which question. Aske me anything What would the world look like if we hadnt explored the americas and founded your continenet?
Who do you think creates the 'law'
for fuxks sake, you take the comfortable world you live in so for granted it makes me sick. You dont deserve to live under a liberal democratic society.
You try live under another form of government (like anarchy in somalia) and you will see how stupid your ideological position is
The only guiding principle of any association is the principle of individual rights. If those are not protected, then there is no "law" anymore, it's nothing more than a gang of thugs, or a mob with legalized theft, murder, enslavement, etc. not much different from gang warfare in Somalia, only the victims are now legally disarmed.
The government is an entity with the monopoly on the use of force to be restricted to the use of retaliatory force against those who initiate it. Anyone who attempts to utilize physical force on his fellow man without objective rules based on individual rights is nothing more than a lynch mob, legalized or not. That's the society you deserve.
Whether the laws are morally correct is based on how democratic the government is.. In a modern liberal democracy (such as the USA or the UK) the law in the most part is legitimate, and agreed by most of us (majority rule)
Majority rule is perfectlly fine as long it sits on some basic principles such as freedom, fairness, that kind of thing.
So if you agree to your law, you are agreeing to democracy. You can call it mob rule if you like (semantics)
It is a circle where power goes in both directions. We give them power, and in return they empower us. Thats the basis of liberal democracy and is the only form of government that has given great stability and freedom so far.
If the 'mob' contains educated and reasonable people than the 'mob rule' is perfectly acceptable
But I find it frustrating when people take our western civilization for granted. It has taken a lot of suffering and wars to get to where we are, and I think you should appreciate the fact we live in very very comfortable, free, stable society. This is what democracy has brought us, and it should be valued as a great human triumph.. not sneered at as a terrible system. Its not perfect, but its working well
Cricky, typical Brit/Euro, you take credit for things you didn't invent, and you ignore the stupidities you did.
Come, come, are you going to apologize or least admit to driving the world to the edge by foisting slavery on America and israel on the Arabs?
Equally true, people who go around pointing fingers hate it when the finger gets pointed back at them.
I see america as a ntaion of millions of my fellow man, and it saddends me to see the state some of them live purely based on the lack of political will to do anything to fix the problems based on an ideological position that says 'TINY GOVERNMENT WITH NO POWER GIVES US FREEDOM'
We can clearly see what this does, and happened in the UK through thatchers reign also. She absolutely wrecked large parts of our country, and reagan did it in youres. Its lazy politics.
They use words like 'innovation' and 'efficency' - healthcare is a perfect example of how this is rubbish. Your healthcare costs 16% of GDP against 8% in uk (boring to repeat) but privatisation here as simply NOT WORKED! It needs democratic control
Whats transferance?
Im actually am American citizen and have dreamed of coming there to work, but the crime rate, and the road traffic accident rate, and the lack of public healthcare actually worries me.
Maybe im just to wussy and need to get my arse over there. Can I stay at yours? Do you have guns?
And like most English, did you have your first sex with another guy in private school. And did he beat you? You talk like someone who gets beat for pleasure, though that's redundant, of course, since you are english.
So what the hell you on about?
I wander what the world would be like if America changed its foreign policy to one of diplomacy instead of war. You and Russia almost destroyed the f.ing planet in the cold war! That keeps me up at night
I do. Though it's awfully sissy to still wet your nannies at night pondering American-Russian shenanigans of 50 years without considering when another one of your geniuses will invent the clone of Fascism, Communism, Nazism from 60 years ago. I could, and maybe will, in my post-male menopausal years. Till then, I'll challenge ranting idiots and point the finger back at 'em. ?=?
There was infact a monent where 'thank god' a russian naval monitoring station worker didnt follow procedure he was told, when he detected a sub in russian water. All he had to do was tell russian gov that it was there, and that would have been the end of the friggin world (look this up)
He saw sense and stayed quiet
I dont really know where this argument is going. You arer just throwing insults at me which I cannot respond to logically. I could easily call you a 'twat' or a 'retard' but thats going to get us nowhere..
have u got a proper subject to debate, otherwise I will move on
Aske me anything
What would the world look like if we hadnt explored the americas and founded your continenet?